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Post by d murphy on Jun 3, 2012 23:12:11 GMT -5
Two months?
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Post by Lauren on Jun 4, 2012 0:23:40 GMT -5
The Room really is the best worst thing that ever happened to film. You're tearing me apart Lisa!!
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Post by razmoudah on Oct 5, 2012 0:38:35 GMT -5
Okay, have you ever heard of Metroid? It's a video game series, and depending on what the genders of the generic Space Pirate enemies are supposed to be, or what genders most of the bosses are supposed to be (with the exception of Mother Brain and the Metroid Queen) the only titles that have had a character other than Samus Aran whose gender is known are Metroid Fusion, Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, and Metroid: Other M, which is only about half of them, and Prime 3 is the only one I haven't finished yet and they still haven't introduced a 'romantic interest' for Samus in any of them. Also, I play a lot of RPG's, no let me revise that: I play a LOT of RPG's, and nearly all of them have multiple scenes where the girls aren't talking about one or more guys, and even scenes where one or more guys are discussing fashion, specifically in relation to what they are wearing and not what the girls are wearing. The only reason I don't use an absolute on that is I can't state with absolute certainty that all of them pass the Bechdel Test, although I can't seem to think of a single one that doesn't (and that's even including dating sim type ones, even ones that feature harem route endings, but there are a lot of those that I haven't played, so that opens up the door for many that fail it). Hell, there are several that are rated M (for Mature, meaning 17+, check out www.esrb.org for full details regarding the rating system) and still easily pass the Bechdel Test (although Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga might fail it, but that's because any discussions shown involving two or more female characters are usually about the primary main character, who is a guy and the leader of one of the 'clans' in the setting, it isn't meant in a sexual or suggestive manner for at least the first half of the game, although as I haven't finished it I can't speak in regards to the second half, though it does have a direct story sequel, but it's one of the few exceptions to this as most of the Shin Megami Tensei games if they have scenes that don't involve the primary main character they don't involve a discussion about him, and I know of one instance where said character can actually be female, which changes the dynamics quite a bit), so I'd say it is more relevant to movies than other forms of entertainment. |
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Post by d murphy on Oct 8, 2012 0:31:52 GMT -5
yeah, there are plenty of rpg's with complex female characters, largely because of their team dynamic and complex stories. still some do fail the blechdel test such as the golden sun and pokemon series and probably most with a male protagonist overall as he'll never leave your party reducing the chance for scenes with only female characters.
i'm incredibly excited for anita sarkeesian's tropes vs. women in video games series to see what conclusions she develops (hopefully not solely blaming game developers the way she pretty much only targets filmmakers in her film series as this is a much larger societal problem exhibited by the fact that many products poorly representing women are consumed by society and not simply ignored) as it will have much more research involved on the subject than i have conducted personally.
my expectation is that most action, shooter, and sports games fail miserably in their equal representation of women as most these games feature a male protagonist who always appears on screen, marginalizing women to roles of seductive enemies or trophies to rescue or pretty horrible exploitation as in the duke nukem and gta series (as much as i love gta 4 as satire, honestly no one walks away looking good, but that includes meaning the women do all come off pretty horrible). there are exceptions obviously such as portal, mass effect to some extent, and tomb raider was one though the marketing of the most recent game looks like a gross rape fantasy. metroid may also work as i never really got into the games, but i've always been kind of uncomfortable with how samus strips her armor when her gender was first revealed. on the one hand it was a powerful statement about her gender not mattering, on the otherhand she is drawing pointed attention to her gender by stripping off her clothes.
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Post by razmoudah on Oct 22, 2012 23:21:41 GMT -5
No, Legend of Dragoon, Legend of Legaia (the scene isn't directly shown, only implied and lightly referenced after), Tales of Phantasia, Tales of Destiny, Tales of Eternity, Final Fantasy VII (again, only implied not directly shown), Final Fantasy VIII (only implied), Final Fantasy IX (only implied), Final Fantasy V (only implied), Final Fantasy X, Grandia, Grandia II, Tales of Symphonia, Tales of Legendia, Tales of the Abyss, Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World, Disagaea: Hour of Darkness (and its ports, despite their changed subtitles), and Disgaea: Cursed Memories (and its port, despite the change in subtitle) are all games I can place that have a male lead protagonist that are capable of passing the test, as there are scenes (or implied scenes) where he isn't present and the girls get to talk amongst themselves. I'm not sure if an implied scene can pass the test, and I know that's not all of the ones I have that could pass it, I'm just having problems placing scenes that meet the requirements right off hand in all of the others, and if it makes you feel better most of them I haven't beaten yet and I've still encountered such scenes (or they've been implied and referenced) in the majority of them. Just because it has a male primary protagonist doesn't mean that the scenes don't occur. Pokemon is rather sadly lacking in character building options for the main character (except for the single player campaign in Pokemon Coliseum and Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness, but they have definite main characters unlike the main series, though they still fail the Blechdel Test), and all three of the Golden Sun games rarely reference events that the lead protagonists don't witness, and never let the female chars have scenes (even off camera) to themselves, but overall in my experience games like that are the exception and not the rule. The Etrian Odyssey games fail the test, even though you can have an all female guild, as the characters in the guilds never have conversations amongst themselves, but again games like this are not the norm, at least amongst RPG's.
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Post by d murphy on Oct 23, 2012 23:31:44 GMT -5
implied scenes do not count, though i do understand a problem that exists with several games as the protagonist frequently appears in every scene (though i feel scenes of a protagonist eavesdropping on two women would count, though again i feel such situations are rare).
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Post by razmoudah on Nov 5, 2012 18:30:58 GMT -5
Well, if implied scenes do not count then that only eliminates about half of them. Of course, the scale doesn't take into account any mixed gender conversations that have nothing to do with who likes who, but since it's meant to test gender equality issues those would have to be restricted to just situations where a female character gives some sort of advice or warning and she is heeded as being knowledgeable in the matter rather than ignored due to gender (with the exception of games where they do that to the guys instead), and with a qualifier like that the only games I'm familiar with that could fail would be dating sims and most of those would still manage to pass.
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Post by d murphy on Nov 5, 2012 23:49:57 GMT -5
it's generally just to show that most conversations involve or are about men with weird qualifiers. for example if two women discuss "the captain" and "the captain" is male, it fails. but if "the captain" is female or "the captain's" gender is never specified, it passes.
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